COMMENTARY 5/03/08 SERMON: FIRST ONE AND A HALF HOURS:

[shadowsofwcg]

SERMON COMMENTARY: MAY 3, 2008

Today, we're going to revisit part of the sermon that was given from Jerusalem that was entitled "It has begin, 1260 days. I just counted 1260 days, I think I mentioned that in the sermon *snicker* It's very obvious what began on that particular day, but you'll find that part of the sermon that is entitled "it has begun".  We need to build upon what was said in that particular sermon.

Much of what we're going through at this time is not easy for the church, I know, because it hasn't been real easy for me, so I know it has to be some times that it hasn't been easy for all of you as well. But it's something you must experience - or in the sense of going back over this sermon or going back over the previous sermon - and even the time we're going through, why we're going through this. This is something you must experience as well. There are preparatory reasons behind all this, brethren. And we'll come to understand those things as we go forward. And we need to get it right in our minds. We truly do. Because we have a big job ahead of us. We truly do. And we have to be of the right spirit and the right mind and right thinking in order to do this job. And this is part of the process as you will understand as we go through the sermon today.

I thought I'd mention to that just as with the world sometimes as I mentioned even about last sermon, that sometimes - well I'll just mention here, I had an interview again with the individual here in Cincinatti I guess it was yesterday morning - and, I think he was probably as frustrated as I was. I might have been a little more frustrated then him. Uh - it was a very frustrating, more than the last time - because he couldn't get where he wanted to go, and what he wanted to address - and I couldn't get into some of the things I wanted to get into - and so it was a very frustrating thing I think for both of us - but, it was very obvious as we started out, at least part of the program partway through that um, he wanted to say that I had said things that I hadn't said. So he was talking about going back and letting me listen to it and I let him know that I already had the night before. So I'd been recorded, I'd gone back and listened to the very specific things that had been said in that particular program, and so I was able to tell him that you know, again, people read into it because they expect certain things. They want certain things, and candidly, sometimes, so do we. And some of us are guilty of doing that very thing, to varying degrees. So it's good that we go through this particular subject again today. Um, sometimes we can be guilty of reading things into what has been written in the second book, and what has been stated in interviews, and possibly even reading things into sermons. And brethren you have to be very, very cautious of this, in how you read. And how you listen. Because it's just as much as things we read in prophecy about in the Bible. You have to understand, let me mention it again here, I think I mentioned it on that sermon time - uh - that I just referred to here it has begun - that, often times I am given things in interviews. Now I wasn't given anything yesterday. Cause we couldn't get anywhere, that's why it was so frustrating. But often times I am given things in interviews.And I have learned that some of the ways that God is leading me by going back to that because I'm not given - it's like, it's like the second book. There were times when I thought that we knew where we were going, in the book, where I was supposed to go in the book, and when I sat down to write, it wasn't going where I thought it was going. And God would give me things I needed when it was time to write I don't know how else to explain that. Because that's the way it happened. The same thing is true with a lot of the interviews. Sometimes I try to prepare in certain ways for some of the interviews, they don't go in the way - just like yesterdays. I thought if I knew, I had that one down. And it - that's why I was so frustrated because it didn't go at all in the direction I thought it was going to go into. But, um, I have been able to learn by going back and reading some things in the book. Because, when God inspires things, when God gives things, we can learn from that and there are some things that I've written that I candidly haven't fully understood. That might seem kind of strange to you but that's a reality. Because God reveals the meanings of things, the meanings of some things as we go along. And just like I was kind of surprised when I went back and read a statement that I'm going to read again here today, about the trumpets. And not knowing what they are until it's time, until we're there. Uh, I was glad that was written in the book in that way! You know because, I think you know until that time, and it's kind of like being at the red sea so often as I've mentioned. Uh, this week, on Monday, I felt that I was not only at the red sea, but I felt I was up to my waist. In water. (laughs) So that's one thing being at the red sea, and another thing being out there in the water because your back's to the wall because Pharoah's coming and the Egyptians are coming, the mountains are on both sides so there's nowhere you can go except go out in the water a little ways, and you gotta wait until God opens up the way. And sometimes I think we feel like that.

 But anyway, be careful. Because sometimes you can jump to conclusions because of what's in your mind. And what you want to see, or maybe even what you expect to see. And you have to, there are things that I have to do, I have to wait until God shows me. I have to wait until God gives it to me to help me to understand, and so do you. And so keep that in mind and be cautious about jumping ahead and jumping into things ahead of time. Or pushing things. Becuase this is going to be done exactly the way God wants it to be done. And to yield ourselves to that process is a matter of humility on our part. And we'll get to that toward the end of the sermon. It's a matter of humility. On our part. Because humility counts before God. True humility is a matter of something that's exercised and is lived toward God.

COMMENT: No one has jumped to "conclusions" in any way shape or form. I will say it again, and it bears plenty of repeating. The "conclusions" that have been made were conclusions that you, Ronald Weinland, have already made specifically into your book. You talk about pushing things. You yourself said in the book 2008, God's Final Witness, that the timing has "been set". You were extremely specific about the timeframes, the events in the sixth seal that were a warning to the storm of the seventh. The only person that has jumped to conclusions is yourself, when you were writing the book 2008, God's Final Witness. And when people begin to call out your errors and your contradictions, you accuse them of "jumping to conclusions". Let me als add the only reason it is in our minds is because it was planted in our minds by your pen. And that is the truth of the matter.

So again, sometimes people hear with their own human thinking, and desires, rather than what God is actually revealing. And that's why again I highly recommend that you go back and listen to even the James Whale interview, because I know that some didn't hear all that was said there. As well as the sermon given from Jerusalem "It Has Begun".

COMMENT: I will state again. You said that the book 2008, God's Final Witness, was revealed inspirational writing by the God of Abraham. And it is ironic today that instead of referring your group back to the book you authored, 2008, God's Final Witness, instead, you bring them to an interview you gave not too long before the 17th. Amazing. Instead of pointing people back to one interview, why aren't you talking about the errors and contradictions of the timelines and prophesies of the book that you wrote?

Today's sermon is simply entitled, "April 17th". April 17th. It's good we go back and revisit some of that and think about some of those things.

COMMENT: Absolutely, In this I'm in full agreement.

Brethren, whether we understand it or not, that will prove to be a most important day in history. It truly is. If you look at the things throughout the past 6,000 years, that day is of great significance. It truly is. And in a very powerful way. And sometimes it's hard for us to understand and grasp those things until they've come and gone. I think about what I mentioned in the interview yesterday. Um. You know what people want to see, they want to see something physical. They want to see a sign. We're guilty of that! The Church is guilty of that! and God isn't going to give very obvious signs in the very beginning here, and even as we go forward, some things they're still going to be blamed on conditions of the weather, global warming, uh, terrorism, it's just a coincidence, that some of this was known or stated ahead of time because after all, others have said the same things haven't they? And there are! There are people that have written books out here that have said nuclear weapons are already in the United States, they try to warn people, ex-CIA, FBI and so forth, uh, people that have written books and the like, (24:12), and so, it's very very difficult for human beings to believe something is of God. And God allows that! And God is going to continue to allow this for some time! Otherwise we would have multiple millions repenting and coming to the Church. It isn't going to happen that way. You'll understand as we go forward. Even more so.

COMMENT: I will mention again what is truth. The only reason, and the ONLY reason, that people were looking for physical events and signs was because you, Ronald Weinland, wrote in your book 2008, God's Final Witness, about seven specific thunders in the time of the sixth seal, which was specific in it's timing from September 11, 2001 through March 17, 2008. These seven thunders which you wrote about in your book 2008, God's Final Witness, were during a time of transition that you said yourself was from the spiritual to the physical. Your statement about multiple millions repenting, how that is not going to happen now, is also a direct contradiction to what you said previously. There is an entirely different reason why multiple millions are not "repenting" and coming to your one and only true church. And that reason is a reason you do not want to hear, you do not want to understand, and you do not want to accept.

So again. We have to yield ourselves to a process that God is working out. Not the way we want it to work out. And I caution you as well. Some people can even get upset at me then. In some of this. And uh, the reality is, You're responsible for your own life. I'm responsible for mine. It's between us and God how we live our lives, it truly is. And uh, you know, the bottom line is, it comes from God, and you get upset, it's not me that you're upset with! It's God. Okay? So be careful. Be cautious in how we address things.

COMMENT: You write a book 2008, God's Final Witness. You declare yourself a biblical figure in the book of Revelation. You proclaim you head God's one true church on Earth today. Your book is so specific, so specific. And suddenly the timeline doesn't work. The things on April 17th didn't happen like you wanted it to work out. But people believed you. People came to you, they trusted you as saying things as the prophet of THE God. And now when things don't go right, suddenly you're people are responsible for their own life. No. You are responsible for speaking presumptously as a prophet of God, declaring things that did not come to pass as you have written them, and you, Ronald, are directly responsible for what has happened in their life spiritually, and you are also responsible for what has happened in their life physically since they have joined your organization and bought the errors, and drank the drink. Your refusal to take any responsibility is sick, sick, sick, sick, sick.

So again this is going to prove to be April 17th, a most important day in history, yet it isn't important in the world. Or to the world. And the world is fully blind to the significance of what began on that day. I can't think of anything greater as far as what's prophesied and what's going to begin to take place then God reveals, that he makes manifest, or that he reveals and tells on that particular day the two witnesses and also a great false prophet. Things that are going to change the world. Things that are going to be a part of helping to change the world if you understand. They truly are. And they're going to be a part of what ushers in and brings us up to the time when Jesus Christ returns. And it's all laid out for us. It truly is. And all are going to have a tremendous impact from what takes place from this point forward. Frankly. It's just that it doesn't happen immediately. Everything doesn't fit into place immediately. And what that individual does later on, who was in New York, and who was in Washington DC, what he does isn't going to be clear and manifest, and even then, people aren't going to be aware that he is the one that's pushing it and behind it when Europe does what they do when the fifth trumpet blows! Now it'll become more obvious to people as time goes on, to some people, but he's going to be the one behind it, that great church, one more time, one last time, these are not small things that are getting ready to take place in the world.

COMMENT: This is not at all what you wrote in 2008, God's Final Witness. Your writings, which you said were inspired by the God of Abraham, are clear that the event would be one that would bring this world to its knees. You said in an interview that by April this world would be shaken to its very foundations. It was absolutely not. You now say everything doesn't fit into place immediately. Your book, 2008, God's Final Witness, clearly indicated everything had a good fit in a proper place in a set timeframe. Your book was clear it would be a world shaking, foundation crumbling event, and now you are saying the world is fully blind to the significance of what began on that day. Again, what is right? Your book, or what you say now? Be careful how you answer that. If you say your book is wrong, then your book is garbage, you have mistakingly made God the author of a book which he was not the author of, and that makes you a false prophet, guilty of prophesying incorrectly in the name of God.

So anyway again. If you're not careful you will fall into the same trap, the same thinking that the physical, natural mind produces. When it puts greater emphasis on seeking physical evidence then it does on spiritual evidence. As I was saying, you know, Jesus Christ said there would be one sign that He would be the Messiah. And then people still didn't believe him. Look at churches today. Look at what they say. They don't acknowledge that. The only sign, the only evidence that we would believe that He was the messiah, Amazing.And God is still doing things in a very similiar way. He has time to give people plenty of room to hang themselves, human nature, to show mankind what his attitude is about, the bottom line is that people don't want the truth! They don't want God! Well. Signs, physical things, have never proven, or, let's say, they have never persuaded mankind, I think of sons who helped build a great ship. Who got on it. And what did it do for them. Shem, Ham, and Japeth. What did it do for them? To experience what they experienced. And from all indications, they just turned bitter toward God. They never served God. They were never recorded as being faithful servants of God. Because after Noah, there was only one individual that was named later on. Several generations. Noah's still alive. And finally Abraham came along. And when Abraham was at an age to begin to be worked with, Noah died. And it continued on. God has continued on from the very beginning of time. Which that which is witnessed, and that which God has worked with in time to lead, guide and direct and to tell mankind and give to mankind, or some of mankind anyway, his way of life, his truth, evidenced through 6,000 years of human history. It's an awesome thing. And so we have to be careful that we don't fall in the same kind of trap that we want physical things before, you know, to fully convince us. We live by faith. And you're going to continue to live by faith, and even moreso, as time goes forward. Even when things get really bad and you know that you know that you know far beyond any other time! Without any kind of doubt whatsoever in your human mind. You have to live by faith. Because God is the one that's going to have to work with you, to lead you, to guide you, to direct you, when you're to be in a city and when you're not to be in a city. You can't know the time. And you can't ask me. That's not my job. To tell you when to be in New York or when you gotta be outside of it. When you can be in Chicago and when you can't be there. See. When you can be in LA or San Fransisco or Houston, TX or when you can't be there. Or when you shouldn't. You've got to rely on God to move you to motivate you to work with you in your life. And anywhere else in the world where things happen. I don't care what comes along. What happens. Some great earthquake. And they're coming. Okay. We haven't seen anything yet what we're going to see more and more as things go on through this summer. And on in through the year here. It is 2008. God's Final Witness. Okay. And that title's gonna have a lot more significance as time goes along. It wasn't the first - snicker - the first third of 2008, God's Final Witness. It's going to go on. Okay?

COMMENT: These are foundational contradictions to what you wrote in 2008, God's Final Witness in every way. You now say you "can't know the time" when people can or cannot be in cities in the world. Let me ask you this simple question. Are you a prophet, or are you not a prophet? What is a prophet? One who prophesies future events by direct revelation from God to the people of God. And now you, a prophet, are telling people that you are no longer going to prophesy the times and events. Could this be because you were wrong in your earlier prophesies? The one pertaining to "The World will be in shock and horror on the day the seventh seal was opened"? You knew the time then, Ronald Weinland. The problem is, that time came, and that time went, and you were wrong. And now you say "you can't ask me, ask God." Again, are you a prophet, or are you one pretending to be a prophet? Your prophesies in the past have failed. Perhaps you are using your head in refusing to prophesy further - but I'm confused. Isn't NOW the time when you are supposed to really be stepping up to the plate and prophesying? Seems to me you're stepping backwards as a prophet, not forwards.

So again. The evidence that is physical is coming. And you don't need to rush it. No one does. Just be thankful that horrifying physical tribulation hasn't yet begun. Now I'm thankful. It'd be a whole lot easier for us, in one respect, mentally, because of the battles we fight, if on April the 17th, some rippling, horrifying thing had taken place. We shouldn't live our lives like that. Okay? There are things to be learned from that even, brethren. There truly are. Things will come, and they'll come soon enough. And they're going to be hard enough to deal with. They truly are.

[shadowsofwcg]

COMMENT: This is a bunch of soured up, curled under, spoiled, putrid baloney. Let me say why. The book 2008, God's Final Witness said that the "evidence that is physical" is in the seven thunders of the sixth seal. Again. This was from the time period of September 11, 2001 through March 18, 2008. That was the time for the evidence of the physical. And there was nothing. You claimed that the tribulation would begin on April 17, 2008 on the opening of the Seventh seal, and the world would be in shock and in horror. And now you say that wasn't the case - but wait! It's still coming! Truly! You talk so much about humility and you cannot even admit the fact that what you wrote was error. Because the truth is if you admit that, then you shake to the ground everything you have ever believed in little small pebbles and pieces. And you are not willing to do that, so you cannot admit you were wrong. And are wrong. And will continue to be proven wrong. You cannot build on a foundation of sinking sand, and that is exactly what you have done.


So, it's easy for many of us to fall into that kind of a trap, or such a trap in such thinking because of our past. And the fact that we have so often referred to the final 1260 days, the 3 1/2 years, the final 3 1/2 years, as a time of great tribulation. And haven't you thought in your mind because of all you've ever heard, those of you that have been around longer, (31:21), what that means in your own mind? That it begins with a bang? And so when it doesn't begin with a bang, can you understand how different scattered groups are gonna take it? Aaah. Seee? We knew all along. There were a lot of people worried on that day. Well, not quite double but almost double the traffic to the church site that day. It was not by coincidence, okay? Cause people just, they're not real sure. They don't know what to think . They don't know how to take certain things.

COMMENT: Now it is quite evident that you are not the one that is really sure. You, Ronald, are not certain of exactly what to think. You aren't sure how to take certain things. Because certain things have not worked out. All you have ever heard, all you have ever believed, while writing 2008 God's Final Witness, even up to the sermon that you named "Three More Weeks", was exactly what you state here - that it begins with a bang. April 17 comes, and it goes, it does not, and now you don't know what to think. But do you say you were wrong? No you do not. Instead, you manipulate people to change their thinking to adjust their idea of what the tribulation is and how it starts instead of simply saying "I was wrong." Something you have not said even once, and clearly, in my opinion, have too much pride to say just once, no matter how clear it is that you are, indeed, wrong.

So we have to be careful too. And such expressions of 1260 days, the great Tribulation, what that can conjure up in the mind, to where we can almost expect something in a certain way, and when it doesn't happen, it's like, oh boy. Now what. Amazing.

COMMENT: What? You write a book all about this particular event in loud, specific, and direct timelines - convinving people of your non-realities, changing lives, causing people to lose friends, and family, and divisions, and now you have the nerve to say we have to be careful? By your own lack of care in speaking presumptously on behalf of God, did you exercise care? No. You were deceived. And now what do you say? Now what.

We're going to go back to a story in Judges that uh... we've had a special relationship with throughout this period of time. As we have come to this moment. And as we've been coming to it. It's the story of Gideon. I wanna go back there today. Because um, this past week, someone mentioned a particular verse that struck them in a unique way. And it did when they mentioned it to me as well. And I thought it'd be good to focus on that particular verse. And think about our situation right now. Because I tell you what, when you put yourself in some people's situations in the Bible which we can do a whole lot easier today then what we used to be able to do, there are some situations where you can feel right along with them because what you're experienceing. But in Judges chapter seven here. Let's go back there. Judges chapter seven. and picking it up in verse 18.

Verse 18 it says, "When I blow with the trumpet," So Gideon is expressing something here, um, somebody's got a phone on, dont know if you can grab that thing, and, um, turn it off, usually it's on the front row up here. LAUGHS. Anyway, verse 18. of chapter seven. "When I blow with the trumpet", so , Gideon's telling them what to expect here, a portion of what to expect, "I and all that are with me, then you blow the trumpets also, on every side of the camp. And say, the Sword of the Eternal and of Gideon... (finishes verse)

So here it is, they're changing the night watch. And they've just changed the watch, and this was a process that was taken place here,and this is the timing that Gideon was led to come up to the edge of the camp. So it talks about them having  gathered together, they were in a higher position,they talked about the valleyhere all the army was, 135,000 gathered there together. And here are 300 people divided up into three different groups. 100 in each group. They're going to come down there, they have their pots, their containers, that they put their torches in basically is what it amounts to, a better expression of what it talks about here in King James, really, um, not just a little bit of a lamp, but, it's also used as a torch, the idea was there was going to be a lot to see. When all of a sudden all around the camp, there was nothing and in this particular watch, all of a sudden, they see as far as the eye can see around them, they see torches. They're on fire, there's a lot of light there all fo a sudden, they haven't seen before, and all this hollering, and this is what caused the panic. um, begin to take place, because its obviously farther into the camp and people didn't have any idea what was going on. They couldn't see these things. So as far as were on the outskirts, on the fringe here of what was taking place her, but here, Gideon, they came up to the edge the first hundred here, others were in different positions the other two on the other side of Gideon, it says but they have newly set the watch. So they've changed the watch. Meaning in the night watches obviously, they have the guards, sentries, that are doing this, and so Gideon at this point, and he says, "So they blew the trumpet, and broke the pitchers that were in their hands." In other words, it was hiding the light. and all of a sudden now, it's exposed to oxygen, and you know, flares up, and all of a sudden all these people standing right there.

Put yourself in their position. You don't know what God's going to do. You don't know what's going to take place. You don't know what to expect. And the odds just aren't in your favor. That's not a comfortable position to be in. It really isn't. And the position you're in right now is not a comfortable position to be in. They were fully exposed. Amazing. And the three companies. Cause they were told to do the same thing when Gideon and their group did what they did. So Gideon started, the rest of his group did it, and then it just flared down on both sides. The others followed suit and did the same thing. And the three companies blew the trumpets and they broke the pitchers and they held the lamps in their hands. and the trumpets or the torches, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow. You know they were making a lot of noise. They were hollering, and they were blowing trumpets, you know, making the noise here. And cried, "The Sword of the Eternal and of Gideon." And they stood. And they stood every man in his place, around about the camp. And all the hosts ran, and cried, and fled.(37:12)

COMMENT: You are the ringleader in this comparison to the Gideon story in the book of Judges. You are the one who rallied in the troops. You are the one that ammassed an army of people, old and new. You are the one that handed out the torches, you are the one that handed out the trumpets. You are the one that told these people in the authority of God what was going to happen, how, when,and where. You are the one that told them that this is going to happen here, this is going to happen there, this is going to happen at this time and at this time and they believed you, and they followed. Then the time came when what you said would happen and it didn't. They're now wandering around in the place YOU have put them. And what you said did not happen as you said it would. Gideon knew what would happen, and it did. That is the difference between you and Gideon. This is where you are, and this is where they are.

Now, we've had a kinship to this story in a very unique way. And we do still. Because. For that moment in time, you didn't know what was going to take place when you were there. You break your pitcher, you're in the first group, you're even more exposed then the rest, because you're farther out there, and if some of them high tail it and run, they're still in the dark. you know? and you're not sure what the rest are gonna do. But you do what you're going to do because you're commited to doing it, and sure enough, all the rest follow suit. Amazing.

COMMENT: And that is what happens to anyone who is a leader in anything, in any group, in any organization, and in religion. You have declared yourself as one of the two witnesses. You have used tactics of manipulation and tactics of fear and threats to those who follow you and those who are critical. And those that follow you have done exactly what you have told them to do. They've kept the Sabbath, they've tithed, they've sacrificed. They've trusted you, Ron. And they've followed you. But you were wrong, you were wrong, you were wrong in what you wrote in God's Final Witness as a tool to draw them in. I hope they do high tail it and run. It's the best thing they could do for their lives right now, which has been changed in a big way by your presumtous hand.

But they stood their place. They didn't start swinging the sword right away. They broke the pitchers, they let the flare go, the flame go to the torches, that were there, and the racket they were making and the trumpets they were blowing, scared the people on the night watches there and they started doing their part. You know, and after a while people were running out of their tents, and people were turning against each other and they started killing each other. Because when there's this kind of confusion and chaos, in  the time of war, um, well anyway.


But for a moment in time. For a moment in time they stood there. And they did what they were supposed to do. Fully exposed themselves. To everyone else. Not knowing what was going to take place, they didn't know. They believed this was of God, fully, against all odds, having been whittled down to size, and here they are. Hope that means a lot to you. Because it should. Spiritually. In what you're doing and what you're going through right now. Waiting. Waiting to see what God does. Because, yo see, God has to do it. God is the one that has to do it, brethren. And until God does it, we wait. And we stand our position. And that's exactly what they had to do. They didn't have to wait too long. LAUGHS. Thankfully. And I hope we don't have to wait too long. But still the analogy is there, and it's something to be learned from.

COMMENT: Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting for what? Was what you wrote in God's Final Witness 2008 true, or was it not? Was it accurate, or was it falsehood? Was it reality or was it delusions? The dates you mentioned so specifically come, and they go, the timelines clearly fail, and you can't say you were wrong - you just tell them to wait, and stand in the position, even though what you said would happen did not. Amazing.

We've been preparing to run down the hill and set ourselves in position, we've put our resources into the torches, into the light that others are to see, that's what we've been doing. So that others could see so it could be well known. That's why we had so many come to the site that day. Because people knew about it. People were aware of it. Not in large numbers. That isn't how God's working. And some people thing we're a whole lot larger than what we are. I marvel at that! Man, we are so small! And yet we've been able to do a great deal with the little we have. Because of what God's doing. It's an amazing thing.

COMMENT: What great deal have you done? Let's look at the truth here. You've written a book with prophesies that were absolute failures. You've gathered people into a small church who have given 30 percent income to your cause. You have thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, I'm sure, into Google to spread the word and to cause growth in your church. And for what? The church did not grow, it stays at the status quo. Your revenue as you say later is dropping. Website responses are dramatically dropping. Again, I ask. What have you accomplished? What is God doing? What you wrote has been false, where you put the monies people gave to you has failed, there has been no increase. How is your God working?

We have not been quiet. (40:07) We've all been a part of, candidly, whats been happening on the Googling system out here you know, and the ability to go out and reach so many people. And the people talking out there. Because they know what's posted. They know what you're a part of. Some of you have talked to different ones as well. Said things to friends. Family. People in the community. And others have seen your stand too, they know. They know who you are. As a whole. So we have not been quiet. But we've spoken out about where we stand, and what we believe. So that's a hard position to be in, all of a sudden. There's the lamp, there's the light, and you're making noise, you're a part of making noise, we're all together in making noise, in a very unique way. And you're standing there.


Then April the 17th came, and it went. And there you are, small, and of no great significance, standing, waiting. I didn't know what to expect on that day. And then when I was given what I was given, well, I understand what's taking place but it doesn't mean that's the way I'd like to see it done. And some of you may have felt the same way. That's what causes us to do what? To examine ourselves. Because God isn't through with us. He's still molding and fashioning things within us. And so you are to keep standing until God puts fear in to those around us. And God's going to do that in his time. He truly is. In different ways and in different times because of things that take place. And slowly but surely, brethren, the process is going to take place.

COMMENT:The way you'd like to see it done? Really? That was the way you prophesied, yes, prophesied it would be done. And you should reexamine yourself. And you want people to keep standing until God puts fear into those around you? That's not going to happen, Ronald. The one who should be fearful is the one who has spoken things and claimed God said them when He never said them at all. The one should be in fear is the one who will not repent of declaring false prophecies and refusal to admit he is a false prophet. The one that should be in fear is not us. The one that should be in fear of the God of the Universe, indeed, is you.

[shadowsofwcg]

So, how do you feel? Are you comfortable in your newfound position? Monday, I wasn't very comfortable. Thankfully, I have a helpmate that was there with me. And she started quoting all kinds of scriptures and all kinds of situations to give me the encouragement and help I need to be refocused because I wasn't having a good day. And so I know that some of you had to have battles as well. You put everything on the line, and you don't know what to fully expect. Except that you do know that you have a battle in front of you. One way or another you have a battle in front of you. Isn't that amazing? One way, or the other. You know you have a battle. If God turns the enemy or not. You still have a battle, dont you. There were 300 gathered together against 135,000. That is absolutely amazing. And that shouldn't escape us, how small, how puny we are. And how great this world is. And we're but a little speck of dust out there. But God's going to do some incredible things brethren. You get to share in the victory that is about to be waged against this world. Cause it is a battle to bring down the world, brethren. It truly is. Everything is going to be brought down. A spirit world is going to be brought down by God, going to have an input to it, finally, thankfully, as well as mankind that's going to be kicking all the way. And they're not going to turn to God automatically just because they see horrifying things take place. Even when Europe does what it does. This country ins't going to automatically repent. After all that they' ve heard, because they' re going to hear a whole lot more. They're not going to automatically turn to God. That's why there's so few who come through all this. Because that isn't man's nature. Man doesn't want God! And that's what God is going to show very powerfully here. Over the next three and a half years. Mankind resists God. Even those who have opportunity. In the scattered nations of Israel. Are going to resist the truth of God. Are going to resist God's ways. They don't want it! Mankind really doesn't want it except for those that God draws and drags in some cases out of that. Quite a few million. It's amazing to understand the nature of mankind. And what mankind is like. It truly is.

COMMENT: You have absolutely no clue what you are saying or what you are talking about, period. You do not know what God is doing in the world, but you think you do. You do not know the scope of how God is working in the world, but you think that you do. You think your organization and you as the leader of it have the answers, but you do not have all the answers. There are some in mankind who do resist God. There are a great many who do not. But the one who is truly, truly resisting God? That's you. That's you.God does not issue false prophesies. God does not lie. And God does not confuse.

So what did you want to see on April the 17th. I know what many others wanted to see. Again. And I know what they heard. Which isn't what I said. Isn't that amazing? Even, even before we went to Jerusalem. The James Whale show. He just couldn't get certain things down in his mind. Because they have a certain thing they want to see or a certain thing they want to accomplish. A certain thing they want to do. And they are bent on doing it. They didn't hear. Or didn't want to hear what I said. And that's not going to change.

COMMENT: Let's go past the James Whale show. That's where you keep going back to and stopping. The book 2008, God's Final Witness is where it begins, not the James Whale Show. Enough about the Whale Show. What we "wanted to see" on the 17th is not something we wanted to see at all. It is something you directly prophesied. Over and over again. On the day. Shock and horror. Remember? It all led up to April 17th. We heard loud and clear what you absolutely and clearly wrote. And now you don't even mention it.

And so others can't see the part about a third of the trees and the grass being burnt or dried up - literally in the greek, it just means to turn brown - basically it dies - it doesn't say how it dies - there could be different ways of making it die. I don't have the foggiest idea what's going to cause that. I could only try and surmise in my human mind. Until God shows it and makes it clear. This is what's happening. It could be by things that are so dry and so bad, it could be by fires, it could be by floods. To kill and destroy. I don't know what's going to cause it. And I don't even know when. I understand the possibility because of what it says here that it follows, it could be very much like the first four seals of Revelation. Because what happened with the first seal was really what was manifested in the next three! So do you know, can you know, can I know? That perhaps we're going to have to follow this all the way up to the time of the second trumpet before it blows? That we still won't have the evidence that we in our own physical carnal minds want to see? Because perhaps a part of what it's talking about is something that's going to be accomplished in the next three trumpets? I don't know! Can you say that isn't what can happen? That that isn't the way God says it could be accomplished? It isn't our way, brethren, it's God's way. And so much of this as I mentioned last - on that particular Sabbath - is about those who resist God. It is about those who mock. God gives plenty of rope for human nature to fully reveal itself. And that's a part of what God is going to be revealing right now during this period of time. The haughtiness of man. The resistance of human nature. The willingness to fight and mock God because that's what they're doing. It isn't about - it's not me, it's not you. It's about God. And you'd better see it that way too that this is about God. It's about their attitude toward God. It's not something for you to take personally. How often do you get upset then, when you feel the brunt impact of something coming from somebody else because they're making fun of you? And you almost feel like perhaps you're in a position of apologizing! Don't apologize for God! Don't get yourself in a position of thinking you have to apologize for anything! Some times we bring some of these things upon ourselves and we have to learn from that process. We've all been guilty of it in one way or another! Truly! This is about God almighty! This is about man resisting God for 6,000 years! okay? That's what it's about! It truly is. Carry that focus all the way through this.

COMMENT: You are a prophet. That means to prophesy. To speak future events by the revelation of God. And now you say you don't have the foggiest idea. Ronald, if you don't have the foggiest idea about a pertinant role of your job description as one of the two witnesses, you are not one of the two witnesses. You don't know what's going to cause it? Then you are not a prophet. Do we know? no. Do you know? you should. You are one of the two witnesses aren't you? Weren't you given power? You keep mentioning again about the physical evidence "We all want to see" and when is that going to happen - and all you can say is I don't know. "I don't know." You knew when you wrote 2008, God's Final Witness. You knew it all then. You knew the times, the dates, the hows, the plan, everything. It was the revelation of the thunders that wasn't allowed to be spoken, you said. God gave it to you, you said. And now when it comes to the same physical "Evidence" that you clearly prophesied about, you say you don't know? You are not a prophet of God. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Yet you have deceived people into believing that you are. Shameful.

It's like what God had to tell Samuel, something I had to learn a long time ago. Back in Erie, Pennsylvania. Because the battles we were going through then were preparing us for something later on I had no idea what we would be prepared for. The lying, the shenanigans going on in that particular area, the things that took place, and how hard that was mentally to live through some of those things. And I finally had to come to a point where God made it very clear, it isn't you. It's what God had to tell Samuel. It was God. It was about Him. It was their attitude toward him! Just - Samuel was on the front row so he got the brunt end of it. And so sometimes, we're in the front row, and we get the brunt end of it. Like Johnny Harrel said, we've all got a front row seat. You know, that's the way it is! And so sometimes we receive the brunt end of some of these things. From family, from people you work with, on the job perhaps, my wife can't get in and out of the bank sometimes without someone calling her in and talking about some of the things on occasion here, you know. Different manager, different ones (unintelligable) and stuff. They're talking about it. Amazing. And so we have people in the community. Family and so forth. And some of them aren't real nice about what we have to say. Oh, oh oh oh. See, we told you. We tried to tell you. 17th. What happened? What big thing happened? We had so many people writing in with different points there. Some of the emails like oh. He said, you said! It'd be in all the newspapers! I remember one of the (49:45), one of the things I saw several times and this one guy just happened to go and see what people were saying. And this one guy was coming on there and talking about you said - referring to the James Whale program - about you said this would be in all the newspapers. And there would be some horrifying, basically, great event that would take place and everybody would see it and everybody would know. Well then - again - I think about how God writes things. And you know, one day, they're all going to know. Candidly, it's just not on his timing. And, if he could only understand, it was in the newspapers all over the world! But he didn't see it! He doesn't understand the significance of the Pope being in Washington. And the Pope being in New York. And the significance of such things and what is started to take place that he doesn't understand what Satan is doing now. He doesn't understand the power that's beginning to be given. And much more power is going to be given finally when the fifth trumpet blows. People aren't aware of those things. Amazing! And that's what God is showing to the world. Man's resistance, man's hatred for God, for the truth, human nature.. all those things that God's going to make totally manifest. It'll be a strong witness of those things. Over 3 1/2 years. And that has a lot to do with the job that he's given the two witnesses at the end.

COMMENT: No, it's not on that guy's timing. Not at all. It was on the timing of God. And you yourself in 2008, God's Final Witness said that timing was set. Of course we're talking about it! You bet people are talking about it. Because they can plainly see what you apparently cannot see. It's you who said in the book when the timing was! Not us! It's you who said the world would be in shock and horror on the day the seventh seal was opened - not us!

So again, so many wanting to jump to the conclusions saying ah... false prophet, false prophet. And, I made some comments about Pentecost. But I sadly understand now even moreso, that there is going to be things that the world isn't going to know or understand or acknowledge. That's not going to slow me down one iota.

COMMENT: You gave your word, Ronald Weinland, your word, that if things did not happen on a massive scale that you would stop preaching. You said that, on your word. On your word, Ronald! You said by late July at the latest, if nothing happened, you would declare yourself a false prophet. Did you not say these things? Yes you did. And now you are saying that that's not going to slow you down at all. Then what you said before, on your word, was a falsehood. Right? You are telling us you are not keeping your promise, you are not being true to your word. If you cannot be trusted to keep your word on a basic point of truth verses lies, if you cannot keep your word on something like this, what in the world makes you think we can trust you with the mysteries of God? God is not going to have a liar as one of the two witnesses! And one of the Biblical figures of the book or Revelation would never, ever, ever, ever be caught in stating falsehoods and going against his very word. You have.

[shadowsofwcg]

So again, because people don't see and don't understand about the thirds, I don't understant them because God hasn't shown me. So, what can I tell you? Do you know what it is? You don't have the foggiest idea. And neither do I. I can speculate and I may be totally right. You can speculate and you may end up being totally right. But God hasn't shown it yet. Just like so many things. When God shows it it's clear and everybody can see it in the church. So if people want to jump to that conclusion, and want to hit that very hard, and God's going to allow that for a while.

COMMENT: You don't have the foggiest idea. That's certainly the truth right there.

[we're at the top] of the hill, brethren. It took us time to begin running down it... and it will take time for us to hold our place and stand here for a while. It took time to get up there. It's taken time to get down there. And please understand. April 17th has great significance in all this story. It truly does. Because that's, if you want to use an analogy, that's the day the pitchers were broken. And everybody could see. In other words, that's what God placed out before people.

COMMENT: Only in your own mind, Ronald. Only in your own mind.

Let's turn over to Revelation chapter eight. Revelation chapter eight. You know this was a really minor period of time.It's an easy time. If we really understood it. Because just before we came up to April 17th, it hit me very hard. That if something major did happen to this country on that day, I don't want to see that day come. How it's going to affect people, I really don't. and when that reality hits you a little moreso when you realize the potential of what's going to take place, I am thankful we're not there yet. And I hope you are too. And so in reality, We're in a very easy time right now. The Great Tribulation hasn't started off in the way perhaps we conjured up in our minds. Because of our thoughts in times past of what the three and a half year of the great tribulation would be like. So much still is about the Church, it's about what God is doing with the scattered church, and will come to the rest of the trumpets soon enough. We truly will. Anyway, Revelation chapter eight and verse 6.

COMMENT: Let me correct you. The Great Tribulation did not start off in the way perhaps.. you PROPHESIED it would?

(reads Rev 8:6)

How can you know, how can you know if that takes place? Only if God tells us. Only if God tells us. Because like both interviewers have asked, is it a sound, is it something you can hear? No, the world can't hear it. They have to be told. That's the whole point. And so none of us would know if God hadn't told us and there's a way that God tells us.

COMMENT: So no one would know. You first say by April the world would be shaken to it's very foundations. Now you say no one would know. Which is it? Which?

(Continues Rev 8:6)

So the first trumpet announces something, and something follows, it doesn't say when. It doesn't say when. Or how, specifically here. I don't know what that means! Hail and fire? Mingled with blood? We know it means death, we know people will die as a result of it,

COMMENT: You don't know what it means. You don't know. You were given powers on April 17th. And you don't know. Amazing. Are you a prophet or not?
(Continues Rev

And we are going to see repercussions of things take place Brethren before the second trumpet blows, just to let you know. okay? will we see a full third, I dont know yet. OK? God will show that in time. But just to let you know, there's going to be a definate spin off of all of this during this particular trumpet here.

COMMENT: You don't know what it means. You don't know. You were given powers on April 17th. And you don't know. Amazing. Are you a prophet or not?

(Continues Rev

Speaking of the grass and the trees. and what its saying here. So again. I don't know fully what that is. It means what it says. It will be done, one way or another. How, exactly when it takes place, I don't know. But I know it's coming. Are people in the world going to clearly see it? No. Just like the individual said about the second trumpet. On the James Whale show. He said when a nuclear weapon goes off then I'll believe you're a prophet. No he won't. No he wont. That doesn't mean he's going to believe it. He'll find some other thing to believe or they might wonder at that point in time. It doesn't mean he's going to believe because to believe he's going to have to believe the truth of what's being said. They won't believe it all. Not in any fashion or form.

COMMENT: You're right. They won't believe it at all. Not in any fashion and form. Because they see you for who you are when you so obviously cannot.

(Continues Rev

It means what it says. Wherever this takes place it will be massive. And the third part of the ships will be destroyed. So again here, when that takes place, people are not going to acknowledge that it is for what it is, that it has to do with the end time here. Some will begin to. People will certainly talk about it a whole lot more. But that's the primary time that, especially even for you in the Church. For all of us. That's the primary time for all of our full evidence. It truly is. So as we go forward, again, I can only give to you what God gives to me. I am not a fortune teller, and I'm not a future teller. Just to make it real clear. That's why I said what I did toward the beginning. You can't ask me when or at wha time you can travel as some have done in times past. And I said well I dont - you know - I have tried to warn people. There are certain times I wouldn't want to be in certain cities! You know, certain periods of time! Candidly, when I spoke on April 17th, I didn't know what was going to happen on that day, but I know things are going to be bad when they do happen. But that's not my place and it's not my job. Okay? That's why you have to have your own relationship with God. And God will lead and guide and direct you as to what you do, when you do it, and how you do it. So again. I am a prophet, and I can only give you the word - the words that God gives to me. That's how it works. When it's his time. And that's primarily done Sabbath by Sabbath by Sabbath. And you have to be careful in how you live your life just as I must be about mine.

COMMENT: That's not your place and that's not your job. What is your job? Are you prophesying daily right now? No. DId your prophesies come true before? No. You declare yourself a prophet, you say you can only give what God gives you. Then you need to explain why what God gave you before was wrong! And you need to accept the reality that the God you thought was giving you what you knew did not! Being careful - for you, it's far past that time. Now is the time for repentance on your part. You have gone way beyond not being careful. Way beyond not being careful.

So if you have believed that on April 17th that this country was going to all of a sudden turn to us for answers, or that all of a sudden they would believe who we are, who you are, and respect you, and respect what you have to say, think again. They're not going to respect you during the second trumpet as a whole. Only those that God calls and opens their minds. Then because there's respect to one another because it's toward God. And because there's conversion will you begin to have a right relationship with those individuals. That's why it's become very very clear for all of you elders to understand. Do not try to help anyone. Do not try to bring anyone along. Save those you know that God is working with. People who have yielded themselves in obedience to the Sabbath. TO TITHING! and to those matters that are very first and foremost. Because those are the things that prove - that are the beginning proof - of wether or not someone is truly yielding to God. All the others out there you cannot help! If it's not God's purpose, if God is not working with them, you can't help them. And we have to understand that deeply. We truly do. So this world isn't going to massively turn to us and respect us and lift us up. That would be wrong in the first place. And it'd be wrong for you to allow them to do that. So please. Understand your place in where you are. And that you've fully opened yourself up in front of everybody. Exposed yourself. Like the one prophet who had to expose his backside. We laugh about that in times past because we've felt like that at times. You know. When you open your life up and you expose yourself to others. It's not the most comfortable position to be in. They'd have grounds today of obviously locking you up quickly if that happened, they'd like to anyways, some people would. Amazing.

COMMENT: Did your group really believe it would be about exaltation of your church? And for you to say the matters that are first and foremost are sabbath keeping and tithing. I fear you will never understand the truth. You will never see the centrality of Jesus Christ and what he really did on the day of crucifixion for all. I fear you will never get it - though I hope someday that you will. You will mock and you will ridicule those who love God with all their heart, soul, and mind. And you are responsible to God for that.

So if you didn't believe that you have any mortgage payments after April the 17th, or you didn't have to pay off your credit card, then you made a mistake! You know. You can't blame me! Well, I don't know how long some of this is going to take place. Live life wisely. It's just like we talked about storing up certain things. If you're able to, one two, or three months, beyond that, you're looking to yourself to deliver yourself. Big mistake. Cause God can take, sometimes to teach lessons, because he's still working with us, molding and fashioning us, those who are a part of the 144,000 and those who are living to a new age. And give it all to somebody else. So you can learn. And that's going to happen to some. Give it all to somebody else. So that we can learn. Because God is never finished with us. (1:02:08) Hope we all understand that. We're a continual work in his hand. And just because a ceiling took place doesn't mean we aren't still being worked with. And it doesn't mean it's easy. Until it's done. God knows us inside and out and he knows what's left to be constructed within us. If you understand. in the part of the temple he's going to place us in. And there's stll work to be done with every one of us. Truly.

COMMENT: Let's get this straight. You are the one that encouraged people to give, give, give, give, give. You said over and over again what will happen on April 17. You said 2008 was it, its the end. There will be tribulation for three and a half years. And now you say THEY made a mistake for believing what one would naturally believe if they really did believe you! What haughtiness! What pride! You can't admit you made a mistake, but you're quick to say that your members, who gave you willingly and out of trust alllll that money, you say, hey! You made a mistake! You are quick to judge others but can't even say you made a mistake or admit your mistakes. How dare you talk about humility when you don't have the slightest exhibition of humility. Your congregation gave you hundreds of thousands of dollars and all you are worried about is them blaming you. Why don't you admit you made a mistake? Why don't you admit where you went wrong? Is it too prideful? Does it hurt too much? Is it too much to see that you were wrong?

So be wise about how you do things. I don't know what point our economy is going to collapse. I am not a fortune teller. I can only tell you what God gives me when He gives it to me. So I think this is a good time to caution the church on those things. And I've got to do what God has given to me to do and you have to do the same things. So again, I didn't know what would happen on the 17th. But now I do have a much clearer picture of what's in front of us. And in time you'll have a much clearer picture of what's in front of you. Because that's how God works. But again I cannot give you more than what God gives to me, and some things I have been given I am not yet to give them to you. There's some things we have to experience and live through brethren. And just as much as what I gave in sermons and during the Feast of Tabernacles in 2005, the same thing is true now. God will give some things, but they're to be given a specific time. That's the way it's always been and it's going to be a lot more that way as we continue to go forward here. It's a matter of your relationship with God. It's a matter of faith. For everyone. For those who are new, I recognize here now, every year before Passover, and even before the Feast of Tabernacles but especially before the Passover season, there are more people that are drawn by God, there are more people who are moved and motivated by God's spirit who want to come to a point of baptism, then at other times of the year, that's just a normal thing that has always been there that God uses. And yet having said that, it's still very clear about something that's happened on the website, and that is, we have a dramatic drop in responses right now. Because a lot of people evidently had thier hearts and their minds set on April the 17th as well. And I feel for them. And some are going to be stirred up as we continue forward. Others didn't come along until that time period, they're ... one individual came along on the 16th, some have come along since that time, and God is calling, they're convicted, and they believe everything. Only God can give that. That's amazing to understand.

COMMENT: You are not a fortune teller. But you're a prophet. Amazing. Did God give you 2008 God's Final Witness, or did he not. Only now you have a clearer picture? 2008, God's Final Witness, That was pretty clear if you ask me. Now it's a matter of faith. Of course there's a dramatic drop in the website. Because clearly that indicates how much emphasis you put on April 17th. You did it, Ron. You made people believe that. It's not their fault.

So again it's important that certain things be repeated, and some was added to that sermon on that Sabbath in Jerusalem, so please listen closely and strive to understand because we're going to be building on those things as we go forward.

I mentioned in that sermon that, just stating what was specifically said, referring back to another sermon, and I said, in that sermon on the 29th of March, I spoke about this first trumpet and read what was written in 2008, God's Final Witness on page 118. And here's that quote again. "The actual event will not be disclosed until it's time for it to happen. As with all the seals of Revelation, any of the specifics of each of the seven trumpets." and that means the fifth, sixth, and seventh. And we know a lot about them, we really do. "Many of the specifics of each of the seven trumpets will not be revealed until it is time for the actual events to take place." Later in that sermon, from Jerusalem, I said "On the day of the 17th, I knew what would happen on the world scene concerning what most people are looking for. Nothing." For what people are looking for. The world doesn't know what to look at. Or what to look for. So they must be told. That's the job! And most aren't even going to believe then! Somebody getting a little chilly? See someone kind of cuddling up there. We don't generally have this problem. Well I guess sometimes in here you do. Hopefully it works better. So much of what I am going to cover today was actually outlined in the James Whale interview that is the last interview posted on the site. That's what I've mentioned in that particular sermon in Jerusalem. And I mentioned that before I go there I want to go up a little bit and bring things up to date. Because my job as the end time witness began on the 17th. So this was given on the 19th this particular sermon. Thinking here too brethren, along these lines... again, what is the world looking for? again, it wasn't the two end time witnesses, it wasn't the great false prophet that's coming along, so they have to be told.

COMMENT: don't you go over the quotes that you mentioned concerning April on your personal website or in your interviews? Why don't you mention where you said that the trumpets would prove you are who you said you are - them happening exactly as was written? Why don't you go over the quote that says April 2008 would be what seperates you from "other prophets"? Why don't you go over the quote that says by April this world would be shaken to its very foundations - and starting last February everything would increase dramatrically? Why don't you mention where the world would be in shock and in horror on the day the seventh seal was opened? And you say above that you knew what would happen concerning what most would be looking for - nothing, when in this same message today you say repeatedly you didn't know what would happen? Contradiction after contradiction. Why don't you answer the questions on the quotes that have been brought up to you repeatedly? The James Whale interview? who cares. It was the book God's Final Witness hy don't you read the rest of the quotes of 2008, God's Final Witness, that we have been repeating over and over and over again? Why that you sent out worldwide proclaiming doom and destruction and timelines for thunders. Explain THAT. Not the interview.

[shadowsofwcg]

I also mentioned in that particular interview that remember that God has not shown what was to begin on the 17th until the 17th. And I repeatedly made it clear whether some had ears or not how God would show the revelation of the 17th. SO brethren, it was not what I was loioking for, it was not what I thought was going to take place until we came to that point in time. 1:08:21 Because man wants to see, as I've also mentioned in that sermon, man wants to see great physical calamity on a massive scale, and all at one time. God is not starting out this process in that way. So we even talked about those things in the James Whale program. Even ahead of time

COMMENT: Who cares about the interview. Im concerned about God's Final Witness 2008. You said that was inspired by the God of Abraham. The interview was not.

He mentioned in that interview, "Do you think definately that things are going to happen next Thursday." and I said "I know that the first trumpet of the seventh seal is blown on that particular day, and that it's going to be a process that begins to unfold over a period of 45 to 90 days." Now let me clarify some of that. I've also mentioned about the second trumpet, that I've made it very clear that it will not happen until after Pentecost. I don't know when it's going to happen. I know that it's not going to happen until after Pentecost. And that's all I can say. But what happens with the first trumpet is something that is revealed over a process of time. And we may not recognize the beginning part of the process because it may have to deal with drought and it may have to do with fires that already have begun this year. Or things drying up in certain regions which has already been a cycle that started several years ago in some areas. But if God chooses to intensify things in a massive way right now just like with weather, things are starting to intensify. That's whats going to make this year different. So again, you're going to have to wait until God makes things clear, until God reveals things in his own way. So I mention there again, it's going to be a process that begins to unfold over a period of 45 to 90 days. We're not to 45 days yet and some people have been ready to chuck it all in. It blows my mind! Some have quit. Not very many. Whether its for this reason or another, I don't know. Amazing. I know that some who were coming along have been discouraged. And have put things on hold. choices, choices, choices.

COMMENT: The 45 to 90 days was NOT in the book God's Final Witness. It came from this interview, after it was clear April 17 would have nothing. So this timeframe came into being. You think we can't see these things? This was something that was not prophesied in the book. It's a stall and wait tactic. And it's ridiculous. Why do you keep referencing the interview? The book God's Final Witness is the root of the whole thing! And again, when it comes to the decision of your followers, you take no responsibility, saying, its their choice. Its not their choice if they believe you! IF they believe you fully, they're going to make choices, and like it or not, it is absolutely your responsibility. If you are on top of a bridge, and you tell someone if they jump a fairy is going to catch them. And they believe you and they jump to their death, whose fault is it? The person who jumped or the person who told them the fairy was going to catch them? Of course, it's the person who told them the fairy was going to catch them who is responsible for their death. In the same way, you are responsible for what your followers do, like it, or not. And you will be accountable to God, like it, or not.

So again, even saying these things before the 17th, it's going to be a process that begins to unfold over a period of 45 to 90 days. And don't confuse that with the second trumpet. They're two distinct things. They're very closely related, because the reality is there are certain things that have to be accomplished during the first trumpet, before the second one is going to blow. How far along? I have no idea. Okay? I don't like this position. But I'm here. And I'm going to do it like I've always done before. I'll give you what I'm given.

COMMENT: And you're going to do like you've always done before. Hopefully most recognize by now what that is and will flee, and flee fast before more damage is done.

And then after that, went on to mention, and after that is a second trumpet thats blown and when that trumpet is blown it's going to leave no doubt left in anybody's mind because we're talking about nuclear weapons from that point forward. In other words, anybody's who'se of a mind to believe or listen to what's being said, that doesn't mean people are going to believe. But the evidence is going to be there for people. So again, came right back. So let's get this right so that everybody knows. "Starting next Thursday, something is going to happen." But people want to see something physical. And I said I - I may be clear, I felt like I made it clear - and I said, like I had said, it will be a process that unfolds over 45 to 90 days. And we're not to the 45 days yet brethren. And are some so thick to throw things away. Where's your mind in all this? And only you can answer that. Cause I know that others have to be troubled. Can we hear, do we hear, do we understand, are we listening to what's being said? And so some perhaps are waiting until Pentecost. You think he's gonna say he's a false prophet then? I can tell you right now the answer to that is absolutely no. Cause I already know where we are, I already know what's going on. 45 to 90 days. And I said on that thursday it's when it begins. So start counting. That has to deal with the first trumpet. Not the second. Okay? So I have talked about 45 to 90 days. Speaking of the second trumpet because obviously it can't take place until certain things that God shows here, but again, be careful of what you hear and what you listen to and what you think you're hearing. Don't be so quick to jump to certain conclusions in your own life and in your own mind even in conversation with others. Because there's a good learning process in this for every one of us. Well I don't need to go back to all that because I've tried to encourage you all to listen again to both the interview and the sermon. And toward the very end again.

COMMENT: Readers, forget the interview, forget the sermon. This is to distract you from 2008, God's Final Witness. That is the emphasis and the root of it. Look at the book he wrote. Look at the particular timeline he wrote. Then show me the 45 to 90 days. Don't fall for this trick. It's not about the interview, it's not about the sermon. It's about a book full of errors, contradictions, and false prophecies. And he will not admit he was wrong, the book was in error, or anything of the sort.

So next Thursday, he said, we'll get the first sign. No, the world won't get it. I said in answer to that, that will be the beginning. Amazing. It's amazing what the human mind hears.

COMMENT: That's not what 2008 said, again, RON.

Let's go on to Revelation 11 here. So playing a little bit like Gideon, I can't imagine what it was like when all of a sudden he's up there because, if you remember the story, he wasn't real keen on all this in the first place. And on a physical plane, I'm not real keen on all this either. OK? Unless you've been here, you don't know what it's like. Let me just throw that out, ok? But you do what you do, and everybody does it, because of your conviction before God. And that's why Gideon did what he did. And God says if you're afraid, and not real confident here, take your servant and go down, sneak into the camp... you remember the story? God said if you fear, what we do you know, doesn't mean we are not without apprehension. Who wants to fully expose themselves, and yet we have over and over and over again. That's not a pleasant thing to do. We're all in it together, we fully expose ourself to everyone else. Okay? If you understand what that word means. Some out there listening are probably saying "Oh they're out there expooooosing themselves now." That'll be on the system out there. Like a bunch of little perverts out there you know? Sick world that's out there, it really is. People who will say anything and everything to discredit, tear down, and I think, why worry about us? We are so puny. we are so small. You know, last year, at the Feast, if you counted everybody, maybe even some dogs and cats, uh, maybe 450. Total. Worldwide. You know, amazing. We've had a lot of growth since then. Which is exciting because of what God has done in that length of time. Inspiring and exciting to see things that take place. And I'm talking about children as well as adults in that. "Why worry about us?" There are a lot larger groups out there to be concerned about. And all this millions of dollars we have? If they only knew. LAUGHS. If they only knew. We hit over a million dollars at one point. But we're way below that right now. We're not there anymore because of all the monies we're throwing into google, and everything else we've been doing. But for a small group like us to be able to do something like this, like we've been able to do on the internet, to be out there, for people to be able to do a search and here we pop up, i mean this small? I'd expect some of the larger organizations obviously to have some of that potential, and some of them don't have that potential, only the largest one out there is comparable in the sense of exposure and a sense of what they're saying and doing and being able to be recognized. to be seen as a whole by others in a good way. There are some others out there that are starting to plug in you'll find but I think as far as a larger group out here, but anyway.

COMMENT: Have we said anything perverted about "exposing"? No. Who thought of that? You. But that's beyond the point. We know how small you are. You ask candidly why we worry about you. You're so small. Why do we care. Because you issued a book to the whole world. You brought in people who had no clue about Armstrongism. And some lives, candidly,are ruined, and are ruined because of you, Ron. You. You ask why we care? Because your influence goes far beyond your little core group of 450 or whatever it is. It goes to extended family. It goes to friends. It goes to everyone who has downloaded or read your book. It goes to those you have influenced in what you call the "Scattered Church". Let me be frank. We aren't concerned about what you do. We believe you have far too much pride, arrogance, and conceit to ever admit your errors. But we do care about people. We do love people, and we do have compassion. And your group is the most brazen COG group right now, and as long as we love people we will be there for them, and we will help them. And we will be there. And we will speak out. And if there's anything at all we can do to help people to see clearly, we will give them whatever eyeglasses and contact lenses they need. And make no mistake. We don't seek them out. They come to us of their own free will. They have, and they are. They can see through the bull just like we can.

[shadowsofwcg]

Revelation 11. Revelation 11 verse 3. We are puny, puny, puny. But God's made those lights pretty bright. On the torches, he really has. And that's been something he's done. Revelation 11 verse 3. Again, reading this, I dont know what people expect. They just, they - I think of the scattered church. Some have made comments like what did we expect? We knew that some time this was going to happen. Two, you know, God would send two along, different people say different things out here, why some kind of wonder, well, is it possible? It's a pretty bold thing isn't it? Pretty strong thing to write the kind of things that are written in that last book.

COMMENT: Finally you mention the last book. Strong thing indeed. Right thing? No.

Verse 3. Not to be taken too lightly. :"And I will give power to my two witnesses and they shall prophesy 1,360 days clothed in sack cloth. And some people wonder well, what are you wearing? *laughs* Well today, I'm wearing my - i'm not wearing sack cloth. And they want you to be in Jerusalem for the full 3 1/2 years. Two witnesses have to be in Jerusalem for the full 3 1/2 years. We;;, quote me a chapter and verse on that one will you? You don't know too much! You think you do! You know, the mind reads into things that God has written! And so I've made it very clear in times past, the only thing it says, literally, is that they have to be there at the very end because they die there. That's all it says. Doesn't say they do their work from there. Amazing what people read into scriptures.

Clothed in sack cloth. So, people don't even understand that because people take things physically. It's talking about humility. And it's not talking about humility toward human beings. Humility is about a relationship with God. Humility has to do with the ways of God, the truth of God, and how we live our lives toward God. In humility. To do things God's way, see. Yielding ourselves to that in humility. Not lifting ourselves up, not lifting something else up before God. Willing to do it in God's way and God's time. Willing to humble ourselves and go through whatever we have to. Whatever exposure we have to expose ourselves to in life. To do it God's way in humility because we honor God. Because we fear God. We fear to do things opposite or in a different way from what God has given us to do. We love God. We desire to do things His way, and in his time. Amazing. So sack cloth, being clothed in sack cloth is about a relationship with God. Not about how the world perceives it, because some have written back to try to get some answers when they push the wrong buttons with me. And I sent them back an email and sometimes people responded, and they've repented, and that's always exciting. Most of them dont. Let them know about what their attitude is, let them know about what their spirit is, let them know a few things here and there about what they believe and how its wrong and people just love that one when you tell them when the're wrong. And they respond back with comments like well wheres the love? wheres the humility? wheres the meekness? I'm not meek toward them, and I'm not humble toward them. I'm humble toward God. Meek toward God. We're not meek and humble towards stupidity. and Ignorance, and arrogance in this world, on the contrary. The job's against that. It's been given to be against them so. Like some commented about what you said on that day. (1:20:36) Said that some are gonna rot from the inside out, oh people just love that expression don't they? oh, you're a hateful person. How can you be so vile? How could you say something about people who mock God like that? Well, they don't see it as mocking God. But I can do it. I can say it. I'm gonna be saying a whole lot more. And they're not nice things that are going to be said about people. And about what's going to happen to people. It's what it says here. What do they think the two witnesses are gonna do? People wanna mock God, what do they deserve. They deserve to die. It's just that now God is going to put some teeth into it. Where in the past 6,000 years he's let man go his own way. At times he's intervened. And one time he let a man rot from the inside out. And he died. He's the man of sin. And he had exactly 40 Sabbaths from the day that he started an apostasy. Rotting from the inside out. Until it killed him. RIght up to the hour right up to the day. 40 Sabbaths later from the time he said you no longer have to keep God's Sabbath. People in the church don't give credibility to that or the scattered church. and think, don't we understand? Don't we see the awesomeness of what God did? The evidence of what God did? 40? 40? From God? Judgement from God? And Sabbaths? Because of what he said about God's Sabbath? The people dont give credibility as a whole out there that are scattered and recognize that came from God almighty. They don't fear God. Man thinks he deserves a whole lot more. Just like sometimes I thihnk about what people are told about coming to Sabbath services and they ask about where is a church in our location we let them know. well first of all you have to understand that unlike churches in the world its not a matter of what they teach, you can just come as you are. It's not that way in God's church, we explain that. Some of the emails - in God's church, there are prerequisites before you can come into fellowship with God's people. You have to be obedient to God first. You have to be keeping Sabbath and you have to be tithing. You have to be obeying God in the most basic things, before you can come into a relationship and a fellowship with those that God is dwelling in. Basically saying. Things along that line to get that message across. And sometimes people don't like that. Where is the love? That is love. Amazing how the world perceives things. (1:23:22)

(continues reading Rev. 11)

And so some mock that and its like, here comes the dragon. You know, its like a literal thing. Fire's gonna come bellowing out of your mouth. Gah. Dumb! Such stupidity and ignorance in people! And a lot of it's just because they wanna mock. Things they don't understand anyway.

COMMENT: You call people stupid and ignorant and dumb for taking something literal. Yet you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to what is normal and earthquakes, and weather. You make fun of even the seismologists who spend their lives studying earthquakes. You dare think you know it all concerning weather patterns. You are so free to call others ignorant when your educational and intellectual ignorance concerning things of science and reality speaks more volumes than anything.

(Continues reading Rev. 11)

This has to do with the ability to say things that have to do with enemies. They're not going to be nice sounding things. Like mockers. Hmm. And in some cases their death will be quick and in some cases their death will be slow. It has nothing to do with hatred or bitterness or anger toward them. It has to do with God's Righteous Judgement upon mankind. For his arrogance, for his haughtiness, to stand against his maker. God is putting an end to it all. That's what this 3 1/2 years is all about. Bringing an end to mans arrogance and self rule. And ushering in Gods rule to this earth. Thank God.

(Continues reading Rev. 11)

God doesn't mince words. Says you want to hurt them in whatever manner you come up with, you'll be killed. God's not playing games. He'll protect them for 3 1/2 years. And if he didnt because of the things that are going to come to pass, they would be dead. Cause there are going to be plenty out there who will want to kill them. Amazing. Nice position to be in, isn't it. Verse 6.

(continues reading Rev. 11)

Times to say there will be no more rain. In certain regions at certain times. To be there for a whole period of time or a portion of a period of time, whatever is stated. And have power over waters to turn them into blood, I have no idea what that means yet. But I know when the time comes, God will give it. Things similiar to the plagues that Moses brought on. And to smite the earth with all plagues. What does that mean? It means people are going to die. With all plagues, as often as they will. So what do people think? Are they doing this because of bitterness, because of indicting us, because of anger, there are just certain people they don't like? God is just going to bring an end to the way the world is and mans world and hes going to give power to accomplish it. So I understand how people can take something like that that's said on that particular Sabbath day because it sounds harsh. They need to get the point. It is harsh. Man has brought all these things upon himself. And it's not a pleasant time we're getting ready to go into.

So in that semon it has begun, we had addressed these verses toward the end and I said that, in that particular sermon, the time is now for the thunders to become far more pronounced and cause devestation in a far more pronounced and visible way.How long has that been? a couple of weeks? That is what you will see. More than what people want to see. From what is stated about the 1/3 of trees and grass, that's later. that's going to happen past. it's going to happen after Pentecost. It won't be before Pentecost either. Okay. Right now it's more about the trumpets than it is about - oh - sorry - the thunders. Did I say trtumpets before? No. I said thunders. I want to make sure I read it correctly. Right now it is more about the thunders. They are getting closer together. People can mock at it, make fun of it, whatever they want to. I started to address some of this yesterday, he didnt want to go that particular direction, kind of made fun of it a little in his own way becausehe said well basically seismologists aren't addressing this as abnormal or strange and you think, well, what are they going to do. Who has the guts to be the first one to stand up and to say and you know make a fool of themselves. "Educated People" don't want to make a fool of themselves. And rippling, making wave if you will. This is not normal what we're experiencing right now in this country. (1:28:09) I don't care what you look at. Everything is increasing right now. And it will continue to increase. It really will. I;m talking about earthquakes too and I'm talking about the economy and I'm talking about weather conditions. This is not going to be a pleasant summer we go through by any measure. But I think about earthquakes here in the midwest. All those taking place around Reno. All those taking place off the coast of Oregon. Hundreds of little ripples and so forth. And most of those things dont happen except around where there's a volcano. Amazing. Things that are taking place under the crust of the earth right now. Where's it going to pop up. Where's it going to be shaken first. Well we have some interesting things to see brethren, we really do. That are going to begin unfolding. And then down in southern california.... amazing what's taking place. And yesterday down in southern chile. Volcano that they think has been dormant for 10,000 years, they dont have the foggiest idea, but anyway, it's been dormant for a long time. We've got a lot of dormant volcanoes in the United States that could be in the same position. All of a sidden it just blows. No expecting it, just blows. Amazing, things that are taking place. But they're going to take place more and more right in this country here. Everything. Everything you're looking at right now is being speeded up.

Anyway, I really get frosted when I listen to things about Wall Street right now. The Stock Market. Mankind. What he will do. What lengths he'll go to for a faith in a system. It's about faith they have. And what they're trying to do to build it up. And the rug's gonna be pulled out from underneath them totally.

So when you have come up to the edge of the camp and broken your pitcher, to speak clearly, because that's what's already been done, you aren't even speaking words. People know you, they know who you are, different ones of the scattered church, amazing the things that have gone on the last three weeks with people and their lives and what you've experienced.
They aren't always fun positions, especially when you cant point to something and say "see, we told you!" That wouldn't be a right spirit, brethren to have. Please, never, never, never have that spirit. It's never a thing of saying I told you so. It;s something that you do not want to see but know must come to pass so they can learn from it. It is a matter of true humility before God. In everything and how its done. It truly is.

God's timing, brethren, definately isn't what man's is. It never has been. He's giving plenty of room to a lot of people. Even in the scattered body. Who is going to believe! And you can see where in a period of a full three and a half years and even that, God's going to have to awaken people in different stages, in different times, because of the human heart, I'll tell you. It's an amazing thing.

(Reads 1 Peter verse 5.)

---- selected quotes from this point ---

"Please understand your place. You're a student. You're a disciple. I dont care how long you were in the Church of God. You've got a lot of catching up to do... Understand your place. God has called you to learn, not to be a teacher."

"Be quick to hear, and not quick to speak."

"Throw away all your past thinking of what you think you understood about God."

"If anybody tries to lift themselves up in front of any brethren, or other people in the Church, to receive recognition from others, um, I don't take that very well.Because I loathe that spirit and that attitude. God wants us to understand how vile that spirit is."





 

[velvet rose]

Whew!  That took a long time to read.  I loved your comments, Shadows. 

This man sounds like the devil himself.  He truly does.  He lies, backtracks and lies some more.  He truly does.  He's arrogant, manipulative, haughty, and a liar.  He truly is. 

C'mon, you followers of this vile man, open your eyes and see him for who he truly is.  And get out of there as fast as you can, with the money you gave to him.  I doubt he'll give it back to you though.  This man is nothing but darkness. 

[Bronze1052]

Admin: Edited for language as it goes beyond PG-13 material. I am however going to leave some language in this post as it is an outlet and release of anger from someone who has been directly impacted by the Church of God PKG.

Damn.  Good analysis. It truly is.  Incredible.  It truly is.  Truly.

I was unfortunate enough to come across this Ron Weinland craze during a spiritual transition period in my life.  I got hooked for about a week.  I even freaked out my girlfriend with it, and she broke up with me.  RON WEINLAND owes me a NEW GIRLFRIEND!  He truly does.

Now after about a week of believing this shit, I kind of snapped out of it.  But I was still really worried it might be true.  You know what it is?  People like me, are just REALLY looking for and desiring that God comes to save the earth.  We're so desperate to have God physically in our lives, that we trick ourselves into believing stuff like Ron Weinland, because we want it to be true so bad.  Who wouldn't want the Good God to come take over events in the world?  Just the fact that we desire it so badly makes us liable to jump the gun and start believing things before we should.

So obviously, Ron said that SOMETHING was going to happen on April 17th.  But literally NOTHING did except for the Pope giving a mass on that day in Yankee stadium; but we all knew about that ahead of time; and Ron mentioned in his sermons numerous times about the pope visiting on that day but said nothing about it being the opening of the 7th seal (he said he didn't know what the seal would be until it happened, but he knew about the pope!).

But even more important than that, is one quote that I can say verbatim from a radio interview that I downloaded and heard from his web page:

BROADCASTER:  "So what makes you special?  What is about you that should convince people that you are one of the two witnesses?"
RON:  "April 2008.  That's what makes me different."

And so.  It is May 2008 and nothing "physical" happened in April, right?  I'm done with this guy.  I am definitely disappointed.  I would of loved for God to come rule the earth.  And on top of that, a Christianity that doesn't condemn everyone to hell who doesn't believe, but instead it allows good works to also get people into heaven!  It would of been great, but no... oh well.

Incredible, brethren.  It truly is.  Amazing.  What God will do to open your eyes.  It truly is, brethren.  DAMN I'VE LISTENED TO SO MUCH OF this SHIT I CAN FREAKING IMITATE THE GUY'S vocal techniques.

And one last thing.  I actually e-mailed the church to see if I could talk to a member about their ideas.  They were SO rude to me.  And said that nobody is allowed to come see or speak to anyone from the church unless they demonstrate their commitment to the church first.  And that was by doing 3 things.  1; to celebrate God's sabbath on Saturday (Which I do actually).  and 2; to tithe 10% of your income to the church (I actually don't have any income so I got that one covered too!  But still, that's not right that you have to pay first before you can come to the church).  And 3;  this one is a doozy;  to believe whole heartedly that the church of God PKG is the one true church of God.  NOW THAT is ridiculous!  They expect anyone who joins the church to have full faith in the church before they even see it, or meet ANY of it's members.  INCREDIBLE  BRETHREN!  IT TRULY IS *#$&$* INCREDIBLE!  IT TRULY IS!  TRULY!  TRULY I SAY!  FREAKING TRULY!! IT IS!!!!

Now, since I had the first 2 covered, I could of lied about the 3rd prerequisite to get in, but I would never disrespect God like that by using his name in a lying manner to get something I wanted, so I couldn't do it.

And now that I think about it... His sermons.  He probably has a laugh track going on for that crap.  I bet you he sits in his room and records this crap.  DAMN IT RON!

Damn, life sucks without a girlfriend.  Now I'm writing in forum's instead of cuddling with my baby. DAMNIT RON WEINLAND!  TRULY!!!

[Mike (Ekimks)]

So the false prophet is negatively effecting the lives of more people than just his members.

Bronze, I'm curious as to how you came across Weinland.  Was it a Google search, and if so do you remember the search terms you used?

[shadowsofwcg]

Welcome aboard Bronze. I'm glad you're here.

I am truly sorry that that happened to you, man. I know that you have every reason to be upset. You weren't the only one who heard that exact quote on the radio. Trust me. I hope you'll post often here.

I'm really glad you got out of it when you did and as soon as you did. Is there any chance you could get your ex-girlfriend back now that you're clear of the loonie-ness?

[WeinlandWatch]

Monday, I wasn't very comfortable. Thankfully, I have a helpmate that was there with me. And she started quoting all kinds of scriptures and all kinds of situations to give me the encouragement and help I need to be refocused because I wasn't having a good day.

A sign that the missus is drinking the Kool-Aid as well? Or she just doesn't want the expensive lifestyle to stop.

And so sometimes we receive the brunt end of some of these things. From family, from people you work with, on the job perhaps, my wife can't get in and out of the bank sometimes without someone calling her in and talking about some of the things on occasion here, you know. Different manager, different ones (unintelligable) and stuff. They're talking about it.

I will repeat what I have said many many times before: I feel badly for the wife.

The lying, the shenanigans going on in that particular area, the things that took place, and how hard that was mentally to live through some of those things.

Oh you mean "shenanigans" like this Weinland?

And so some perhaps are waiting until Pentecost. You think he's gonna say he's a false prophet then? I can tell you right now the answer to that is absolutely no.

"If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane." Audio

We are so puny. we are so small. You know, last year, at the Feast, if you counted everybody, maybe even some dogs and cats, uh, maybe 450. Total. Worldwide. You know, amazing. We've had a lot of growth since then. Which is exciting because of what God has done in that length of time. Inspiring and exciting to see things that take place. And I'm talking about children as well as adults in that.

That is a smaller Feast turnout than even "w" admitted. Given that at least a hundred of those were visitors (i.e., not regular members of any CoG or their CoG's Feast sites were full), it looks like 300 is a fairly accurate number for the church.

And all this millions of dollars we have? If they only knew. LAUGHS. If they only knew. We hit over a million dollars at one point. But we're way below that right now. We're not there anymore because of all the monies we're throwing into google, and everything else we've been doing.

Any wonder the bank managers want to talk to the wife. They are probably trying to get her to separate her finances. Here's my question though: If you were over a million bucks at one point, but you're way below that now, where did the money go? Does Daddy's Little Bookkeeper have an answer for that?

Clothed in sack cloth. So, people don't even understand that because people take things physically. It's talking about humility. And it's not talking about humility toward human beings. Humility is about a relationship with God.

No, you get to be an arrogant S.O.B. to human beings because that is S.O.P. for members of the Levitical priesthood.

God doesn't mince words. Says you want to hurt them in whatever manner you come up with, you'll be killed. God's not playing games. He'll protect them for 3 1/2 years. And if he didnt because of the things that are going to come to pass, they would be dead. Cause there are going to be plenty out there who will want to kill them. Amazing. Nice position to be in, isn't it.

Let me repeat this again. No one wants to kill the Weinlands. No one knows who they are. And of those who do, no one wants them dead.

So in that semon it has begun, we had addressed these verses toward the end and I said that, in that particular sermon, the time is now for the thunders to become far more pronounced and cause devestation in a far more pronounced and visible way.

"Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth." [pp. 115, 2008: God's Final Witness]

1:09:55 - 1:10:04 RW March 22 Sermon: "Just like what we believed that just last week here. Oh last week? 18th.” [someone laughs] “Yeah. The seventh seal was opened........."

From what is stated about the 1/3 of trees and grass, that's later. that's going to happen past. It's going to happen after Pentecost. It won't be before Pentecost either.

"If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane." Audio

[velvet rose]

I'm glad you added those because that is what I was thinking when I read those statements.  He is so clearly insane, BY HIS OWN WORDS!  I wonder when he's finally gonna fess up.  Do you think he ever will?

[Sunny]

I'm glad you keep these quotes handy and in order...sometimes I forget what he's said.

I think lots of people who follow him forget too!
 

[WeinlandWatch]

Yes his followers have compartmentalized (i.e., they have forgotten what has gone before), because that is the only way they can make the cognitive dissonance compute.

[WeinlandWatch]

Audio: "Not one iota."
Audio:"And so some perhaps are waiting until Pentecost."
Audio: "If by Pentecost."